The following is the transcript of an interview with Mouaz Moustafa, executive director of the Syrian Emergency Task Force, and Andrew Boyd, former director of the CIA Cyber Intelligence Center, on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” broadcast on December 8. , 2024.
MARGARET BRENNAN: For an analysis of events unfolding in the Middle East, we are joined now by Andrew Boyd, a CBS News contributor who previously held senior positions at the CIA and previously served in Damascus as foreign service officer, and Mouaz Moustafa. , the executive director of the Syrian Emergency Task Force. Welcome to “Face the Nation.” Mouaz, I want to start with you. You have been involved in the Syrian opposition for over a decade. Help us understand what it means to see the regime fall.
MOUAZ MOUSTAFA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE SYRIAN EMERGENCY FORCE: It’s an indescribable feeling of – of happiness that – that this regime, this dictator who committed the worst crimes of the 21st century, alongside Russia, Iran and ISIS, all these horrible people were defeated by a coalition of rebel forces who did not need the support of any outside country, nor Turkey, nor the Qatar, nor anyone. This time, Syria was liberated by its people, for its people. And it’s truly inspiring. And this not only has good repercussions for Syria, but also for the Middle East and Europe.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There’s a lot of uncertainty about what this all means. Andy, you’ve been monitoring this area very closely for some time. Right now, none of the officials I’ve spoken with in the regional governments, in the U.S. government, seem to know where Bashar al-Assad has gone. Does it matter where he went?
ANDREW BOYD, FMR. DIRECTOR OF THE CIA CYBERINTELLIGENCE CENTER: Mouaz may differ on this point. I don’t think that’s the case now that the government has fallen. I think what happens over the next few weeks, and- and if the opposition actually treats all the factions in Syria with dignity and respect and- and keeps them safe, we will understand better, because you know, there’s lots of things to do. atrocities perpetrated by the Assad regime. These people are probably still in Syria, and so we’ll see how that goes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It’s true, the people who worked within the regime are still there.
BOYD: Syrian military intelligence, other intelligence services, the General Directorate of Syrian Intelligence, I mean, has a lot of blood on its hands.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes, and I know that you personally, Mouaz, were involved in smuggling documented evidence of some of the torture, mass atrocities, systematic and institutionalized violence that occurred in some of these prisons. You presented it to Congress. You made it public. What do you think we can learn now that these billing buildings are seized by the rebels?
MOUSTAFA: Well, the first thing we’re working very hard on, and I can tell you all the rebel factions are working very hard to do this, is finding Austin Tice and hopefully bringing him back to the home, God willing, alive, with his family…
MARGARET BRENNAN: An American journalist who worked at CBS News for a time, a Marine veteran.
MOUSTAFA: And he’s a hero. He went to cover up the plight of the Syrian people because of what Assad, Iran and Russia did to them, and God willing we will bring him home alive, but we have to find him and bring to his mother, whatever. What. And the Syrians owe him an eternal debt. Also, other Americans who are not declared. And freeing Syrians from prisons is something that’s really important, but the collection of this intelligence as well as Hezbollah, Iran, Russia, the Assad regime, all the officials who have been arrested by the Syrian people, again, without any support from the international community or the countries in the region, who actually worked to try to save Assad, that is valuable, that is valuable to the United States. This is why we must collaborate with this new emerging government which, God willing, is the path to democracy. The only Arab country in the world that hopes to become a democracy is Syria. It’s incredible.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s a big promise to make.
MOUSTAFA: It’s not a promise, it’s hope, it’s realistic.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I hope so. Andy – but at the moment, the person we see emerging – we showed him, in the Umayyad mosque, a highly symbolic place to come and give a speech, in Damascus – is this leader of a terrorist group , designated by the United States as a terrorist, $10 million price on his head.
BOYD: That’s right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What does this mean to you?
BOYD: Well, as Congressman Turner said, it’s not going to be easy to remove the designation of Abu Muhammad al-Jawlani…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Which means the United States can’t talk to him.
BOYD: The United States can’t talk to him. I mean, you know, we can have some flexibility, but he’s not going to instantly disappear from the designation list. So, I mean, we’ll see. I mean, you said he would respect all the factions, the Druze, the Christians, even the Shiites and the Alawites, who were responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Syrians…
MOUSTAFA: I speak by his actions, not by his words. Aleppo, et cetera. You could talk to the bishop of Aleppo, but yes, absolutely.
BOYD: That’s true, but, you know, time will tell. I mean, I’m a born skeptic, like many of my colleagues at the agency. We’ll see.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Go ahead, Mouaz. Tell us who is involved in this: you spoke about it as a coalition, not just as HTS. Who are these people who now seem to control Syria?
MOUSTAFA: Of course. First of all, since the whole world is boiling down the entire Syrian revolution to a single faction of a coalition, or let’s say, even a single person within a faction of that coalition, let’s discuss it. Why was HTS put on the terrorist list? It was put on a terrorist list because of an older version called Jabhat al-Nusra, which had a vague affiliation with Al-Qaeda, not a transnational or regional terrorism thing, but an inter-Islamist movement, whatever. I don’t agree with any…
BOYD: But Mouaz, I think Margaret is also speaking as the person of Abu Muhammad al-Jawlani. I mean, he was in Al Qaeda in Iraq. He worked for Abu Musab Zarqawi. He spent several years in Bucca prison as an inmate, you know, so we also talk about HTS, about Jabhat al-Nusra, but also about him as a person. He is designated…
MOUSTAFA: Of course, let’s talk about him as a person. But the hilarious thing is that right now millions of Syrians are returning from Europe and ready to go home, no one has been displaced and no violations have been reported , and I was on the phone with the Bishop of Aleppo. The reason I was on the phone is because President Trump and people in his camp were worried about the plight of Christians in Syria. Of course, there’s so much focus on, you know, whenever there’s something – terrorists, terrorists. And what ended up happening was the bishop of Aleppo said, “Sir, first of all, it’s the coalition of groups, including HTS, and we have more electricity now than under the regime, and our only fear is Russian airstrikes. So I’m glad that President Trump again told Russia what to do: leave Syria, and they did.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we’ll monitor whether that continues to be the case and what happens. And what does this mean for the…
MOUSTAFA: One-one last thing, Margaret, this is really important—
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mouaz, I have to go. I’m really sorry.
MOUSTAFA: But al-Qaeda in Syria [UNINTEL]it’s the branch, and HTS defeated it and defeated ISIS. The old designation doesn’t really matter.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we’ll watch this developing story and we’ll be right back.
